ח׳ אלול ה׳תשפ״ה | August 31, 2025
System and Discipline are an Essential Part of Chinuch
“The idea of Discretionary Chinuch is so true. Every bochur is different, every situation is different, and no one should be treated like a number on a chart. But here’s the thing: rules and discipline are also not something we can throw away.”
“The idea of Discretionary Chinuch is so true. Every bochur is different, every situation is different, and no one should be treated like a number on a chart. But here’s the thing: rules and discipline are also not something we can throw away.”
By Another Yungerman
I read the article by “A Yungerman” titled “Attendance Charts Don’t Shape Neshamos,” and I would like to share another perspective.
The idea of Discretionary Chinuch is so true. Every bochur is different, every situation is different, and no one should be treated like a number on a chart. A real mechanech has to see the story behind the boy, not just the rule he broke.
But here’s the thing: rules and discipline are also not something we can throw away. A yeshiva, or any school, without structure simply doesn’t work. Bochurim need to know there’s a system, a framework that’s bigger than them, something steady and reliable that they can lean on.
Because as much as a bochur wants to be understood, he also wants to feel safe. And safety comes with boundaries. If everything is just “depends on the situation,” then nothing is solid. They need to know there’s such a thing as right and wrong, and there are consequences when you step out of line.
And yes, sometimes, that means being strict. Sometimes, that means being firm in a way that the boy may not like. It’s not fun. But somewhere along the way, every bochur has to learn that life isn’t just soft edges. Life has rules. Torah has rules. And a parent, a teacher, or a mashpia who’s never willing to draw the line, even sharply, isn’t really doing him a favor.
That doesn’t mean we turn into robots. Of course, one boy coming late because he was lazy is not the same as another boy who came late because he was helping his mother. But lateness itself needs to mean something. If we don’t have the system in place first, then we don’t even have the language to explain the difference.
It’s like halacha. The Torah gives us rules, firm and set. But then comes a posek, who looks at the situation and says, “Given the circumstances, this is how it should be applied.” Without rules, it’s chaos. Without discretion, it’s cruelty. Put them together, and you have Torah in real life.
So too in Chinuch: The system sets the foundation. Discretion brings it alive.
The truth is, bochurim actually crave that balance. They’ll kvetch, they’ll test, they’ll push back, but deep down, they feel secure when they know the rules are real, and they feel valued when they see that the rules aren’t blind.
Discipline without compassion is harshness. Compassion without discipline is weakness. But together – firmness, structure, and heart – that’s real Chinuch.
COMMENTS
Hi!
Thank you for your response! I truly appreciate that this is becoming a discussion, and that means more than anything. It means that people are showing interest.
As the author of the original piece, I invite you to please contact me at “[email protected]”, so we can further discuss the issues at hand.
Your ideas, whilst valid, also raise some other counterpoints, and I would like to discuss them with you.
Ultimately, the point of my original piece is to inspire real change. And that is why I ask that the ‘powers that be’, contact me, and we can sit down and discuss these real life issues.
Best of luck!
I can almost guarantee that the original author is reading this response and thinking, “of course, I’m not saying that we don’t need this”…
It’s a shame that when people write a piece, it’s often perceived as a hard core stance. When for the most part, people are just making A point, while at the same time not negating everything on the other side. Kinda discouraging for people to share their own thoughts on public platforms..
Hi I really appreciate this discussion
As a mechanech I deeply agree with both articles
But I definitely think the original one is more important, no one is talking about getting rid of rules or whatever,
Sometimes a big issue is that the people that want to do what’s right have such a trauma of change (granted for a very good reason) that they are always באווירינינג that of course we need to have personalized attention.. BUT.., that “but” sometimes destroys the whole thing
Yes b”h everyone (within the dynamic of this discussion and people with healthy chassidish hanachos) knows that you need mashmaas and discipline please stop being so scared we will forget and focus on the part that we aren’t dealing with (it’s a huge issue in yeshivas nowadays, saying from first hand experience)
A big portion of mechanchim spend all their energy in that “but don’t forget..” they end up forgetting what came before the “but” ויש להאריך וד״ל
To add one point which is obvious, no one is saying to get rid of discipline the rules are the rules and Seder is Seder but rather within the framework of the rules understand and work with the bochurim.
And like in the mashal you gave, Halacha is Halacha but you still need a rav that understands the person asking the Shaila and understand the context and what’s going on etc (we don’t change Halacha but a rav has to know context and when to be machmir and when to be meikel and when even if he can’t be meikil but to show compassion and help for the future etc). ויש להאריך ואכמ״ל.
Last paragraph is great
Thank you for your article. If I had to guess, it would seem that the author of the 1st article is a student [likely still is as he seems young, but maybe freshly married yungerman or later but just hasn’t healed yet] who has had some unfortunate interactions and situations in his school/yeshivah. Even in the right setting, misunderstanding happen, and sometimes the one in charge indeed shouldn’t be the one… The writer of this article may be a Mechanech who’s invested himself in a moisad to make it functional and at the same time warm and reasonable. He writes with maturity and care.
I write the above not to entertain myself but to point out that when reading anonymous articles we need to take into consideration that some are writing from a very personal experience – which as important as it surely is, it’s only one story. While others are writing from years of multitudes of individuals [who are also being viewed as unique individuals].
I too, have had some years of exposure to both ends of the “system” and can testify that בהשקפה ראשונה the second writer is bringing you the דרך הישר
It’s important to note that it is sometimes a parent who’s not aligned with the style of the school/Yeshivah that they sent their son to, which can cause some misunderstandings etc.
And hakaras hatov for the whole hanhala, with prayers for everyone to get paid more and more consistently (morahs especially). Hard to keep staff working and being on top of our game in our schools without adequate compensation. For classroom management and feelings that things are fair, we do need positive regard (challenging to be in a great mood when not getting paid/stressed about own bills) along with consistency in rules and systems. Chessed, gevurah— tiferes. Praying and thanking.