Comments on: Website Calculates No-Kiddush Hour

By: Yankev

Yankev — Sun, 08 Nov 2020 18:34:51 +0000

In reply to Eliyahu. See footnote 21. [21] Directive of Rav Z”S Dworkin; Rav Groner states that the Rebbe negated the former opinion and held of 6:00-7:00 in all places; See also Igros Kodesh ibid where the Rebbe mentions 6:00-7:00

By: Bochur

Bochur — Wed, 04 Nov 2020 01:54:44 +0000

Here is a link to a source sheet for a shiur given by r sholom ber Levine, the chabad librarian.
In the second page there is a picture of the maane of the rebbe on this.

https://s3.wasabisys.com/chabadlibrary/SH/2/shiur167.doc

Also see Shaarei Halcha U’Minhag Chelek 1 pg. 267 where they bring down all the various Maanos of the rebbe on the subject.

By: A fellow jew

A fellow jew — Wed, 04 Nov 2020 00:10:21 +0000

Thanks. I was always wondering about the exact time.

By: Eliyahu

Eliyahu — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 21:43:06 +0000

In reply to Yankev.

what you quote does not say that the r’ groner said 6-7 in all places
there is no such opinion
read my first comment to understand the 2 opinions

By: Asher

Asher — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 21:42:28 +0000

The Rebbe’s final letter on this, and the one that clarifies it fully, is not printed in Igros Kodesh.
It is printed in Rabbi Berel Lein’s booklet “Avodas Hakodesh”, printed in 5755, with the photo of the question with the Rebbe’s answers in the margins.
It leaves no makom for sofek.
Please clarfiy who the senior Chassidim are, and also, Divrei Harav (Igros Kodesh) and Divrei Hatalmid (“senior Chassidim”), Divrei Mi Shom’im.

By: Gomer

Gomer — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 21:36:03 +0000

In reply to Shliach. Funny you'r surprised. The rebbe's Horaa to put three candles was regarding advertising lighting candles to klal yisrael while the third candle would indicate that the daughter is lighting too. I don't think the creater of this website is coming to advertise candle lighting rather just say when the sixth hour is. No one disagrees that a married woman lights two candle's.

By: Shliach

Shliach — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 19:58:26 +0000

In Eretz Yisroel we hold 20 to 6 until 20 to seven.

Surprised to see 2 candles without the third for the daughter.

By: Gomer

Gomer — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 19:53:37 +0000

Thanks so much! I was waiting a long time for such a website. Was never sure what time it is by me.

By: Yankev

Yankev — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 18:33:11 +0000

Rav Groner states that the Rebbe held of 6:00-7:00 in all places;

Source:
The custom is to calculate midday and the seventh hour as 60 minute hours throughout all times of the year and in all places.[16] Likewise, the custom is to calculate the 7th hour from the average Chatzos [Chatzos Haemtzai] as opposed to the real Chatzos. [Chatzos Haamiti].[17] Thus, the time of midday and the 7th hour remains the same throughout the year in all areas and does not fluctuate with summer/winter.[18] In general, the average Chatzos is at 12:00 pm. Accordingly, the practical custom is to avoid saying Kiddush from 6:00-7:00 throughout all times of the year and in all places [except for when DSL is active].[19] Nevertheless, in many countries, due to the change of time zone, the average Chatzos is before or after 12:00. For this reason, the custom in Eretz Yisrael is to view the average Chatzos as 11:40, and hence avoid Kiddush from 5:40-6:40.[20] However some Rabbanim[21] negate this matter, and state one is to always follow 12:00 p.m. as Chatzos irrelevant of his time zone, and hence avoid Kiddush from 6:00-7:00 in all places. One is to follow his community’s custom in this regard. The custom in N.Y. is to avoid Kiddush between 6:00-7:00 and in Israel to avoid Kiddush between 5:40-6:40. Thus, this entire matter of adherence is only in the winter, when 6:00-7:00 falls after the entrance of Shabbos, and not in the summer when 6:00-7:00 falls before the entrance of Shabbos.

Daylight savings time:[22] During those months in which DST is active, the 7th hour of the day is pushed up one hour, and hence one is to avoid making Kiddush from 7:00-8:00, [or in Israel from 6:40 -7:40].[23]

The reason: The reason for this is because the Mazalos do not follow Shaos Zmaniyos, but rather an exact 60 minutes. [Igros Kodesh 12:226, printed in Shulchan Menachem 2:71]

[21] Directive of Rav Z”S Dworkin; Rav Groner states that the Rebbe negated the former opinion and held of 6:00-7:00 in all places; See also Igros Kodesh ibid where the Rebbe mentions 6:00-7:00

[22] Pashut! Piskeiy Teshuvos 271:4; Directive of Rav Z”S Dworkin brought in Kovetz Oholei Torah; Custom of Rebbe not to make Kiddush during DSL from 7:00-8:00. [Heard from Harav L. Groner]

[23] As the average Chatzos is really at 1:00 during DST, as the clock has been pushed up an hour, and hence the true time at 1:00 is 12:00, and hence the true time as 7:00 is 6:00. Upashut!

https://shulchanaruchharav.com/halacha/avoiding-making-kiddush-during-the-7th-hour-on-friday-night/

By: A yid

A yid — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 18:00:00 +0000

The reason that this was not practiced by Chassidim in Russia is perhaps because of the prevailing conditions. The concept of Chatzos ha’emtzoi is something that Rebbe introduces in letters (published in likutei sichos and other seforim).

By: Levi

Levi — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 17:43:10 +0000

You forget to mention that according to the rebbes initial letter its 6 flats hours (not zmaniyos) after that specific day’s zman of chatzos (not chatzos hoemtzoi)

By: Eliyahu

Eliyahu — Tue, 03 Nov 2020 17:39:19 +0000

The Rebbe mentions 2 options – 6 60 mins hours after chatzois ho’amiti (chatzos of sha’os zmaniyos) or 6 60 min hours after chatzois ho’emtzioes *which i believe this site is trying to help people work out when that is).
the rebbe says that be’etzem option one makes most sense but minhag is like option 2
there is no option of going by 6-7 on the clock, that a mistake of amaratzus that defies all logic, and the rebbe was befoirish shoilel it in a ma’ane to reb sholom morozov
“It should be noted, that according to a number of senior Chassidim, this custom was not practiced by the Chassidim in Russia”. what really should be noted is that the rebbe took this minhag very seriously as evident from his letters.