who do you think you are to decide what the rebbe would do???

Originally, the men and the women would stand in separate sections on the same level. However, the sages feared that, particularly during a time of celebration, such closeness might lead to frivolous interaction between the genders, and decided to have a balcony constructed for the women (Sukkah 51b).

Professor Kasdan, a Russian ba’al teshuvah, was active behind the Iron Curtain and continued his activities in the USSR after settling in Cambridge, Massachusetts. He once wrote to the Rebbe that “there is a group of young women who would like to learn Torah. Would it be permissible to admit them to men’s study classes?”

In an English letter of 20 Cheshvan 5739 (1978), the Rebbe responded: “In view of the extraordinary circumstances of that country [USSR], I would be inclined to take a more lenient view, to admit women into men’s classes.

“However, in order to emphasize the exception due to the extenuating circumstances, and to be mindful of the Din, two provisions should be made; one, to teach in a co-ed class such subjects as are incumbent on women… Second, that separate seating should be arranged… although we are speaking of persons who, by reason of background, are not otherwise averse to mixed dancing and socializing, it is obvious that this should not be permitted in these groups, and no heter should be implied.

“I must emphasize again that the heter… is based on… there being no other way… it should in no way serve as a precedent for other countries where those circumstances do not prevail…”

(Complete letter printed in Teshura Lee-Paylie, Kislev 5763

Who’s to decide?
Once we are applying the rebbe’s words, which were said in the context of weddings, to other events, because we can’t let the yetzer hara rule anywhere, what’s the logic to limit it to gala dinners and not other sit down meals?

In general I find it interesting that an article titled “The rebbe’s view: mixed dinners” is made up mostly of things the rebbe says regarding having a mechitza at weddings, with only 2 maanos actually given in connection to dinners…

I think you’re nitpicking somewhat. Dinner here means a “gala dinner.”

That’s exactly my point!

Because each ase is so different, we shouldn’t put out blanket statements.

It’s not up to us, or the author to make the judgement call. It is up to a rav to handle each situation individually.

Ps – I’d be totally fine if the author had brought down the rebbe’s words about weddings, and the maanos about the dinners. I take issue with the authors statement that this applies to all dinners with mixed seating, because then, why would a shabbos meal be different?

How can you just say that the Rebbe would change his mind???

The Rebbe’s instructions are not up for change except for by the Rebbe himself.

That’s a valid question, and we need to make a judgement call.

But I’m sure you would agree that there’s quite a difference between a large dinner with mingling of couples and a middle age family hosting some young boys or girls at their Shabbos table.

if i am not mistaken, all the hungarian commmunities, (satmar is hungarian) had mixed chassunas etc. in 1940s and 50s.

you write “Satmar and Hungarian communities who came in the chof’s…”
there were no communities that came in the chof’s,
those years are when they started raising there standard’s and forming the communities that exist today.

as in many issues, this is one example of a bar that Lubavitch raised, and other communities jumped on to the bandwagon, and then clamed ownership.

Depends how you define mixed dinners.
Again, I’m not saying that this isn’t something we should talk about and be m’orer about. I just have a problem with putting out blanket statements.
“Any dinner with mixed seating” would include shabbos meals, holiday events, BBQs etc.
Is that what the rebbe meant?
I can’t be sure, and I don’t think the author can either…

I’m confident that today the Rebbe would allow and even encourage dinners without mechitzas.

What I’m saying is that the rebbe said that in a certain context. We have to be careful when applying it to other situations because once we do that, where is the line?
Does this mean that anash can’t host bochurim at their shabbos meal because the wife is at the table? or they can’t host girls at the same table as the man of the house? Why is that not considered a mixed dinner?

Every situation is so different and everyone should ask their rav. I feel that putting out a blanket statement that “it is binding for any dinner with mixed seating” just isn’t right.

While it could be that there are circumstances when Rabbonim allow something, that doesn’t make it permissible for all. Everyone knows that there are halachos of sh’as hadechak, but that requires a case-by-case analysis.

The fact remains that the Rebbe spoke out strongly about the separation of genders in schools (even younger students), shuls, shiurim, and weddings. Do you really believe that the Rebbe would support mixed dinners?

I don’t understand your logic.

The Rebbe says clearly that the problem with mixed seating is NOT because of the sheva brachos, but because “chas veshalom, allow the yetzer hara to rule” (Shulchan Menachem, Vol. 6, p. 224) and it leads to sinful thoughts (Igros Kodesh, Vol. 9, p. 1).

Would anyone say that those things are allowed on any occasion?

I took the time to look up both sources they brought (Shulchan Menachem, Vol. 6, p. 224 and Igros Kodesh, Vol. 9, p. 1) and found that they are both explicitly on the topic of a wedding without any mention of other kinds of gathering.

And while the author brought 2 instances in which the rebbe instructed shluchim to have separate seating at their fundraising dinners, it is still a far jump to say that this “is binding for any dinner with mixed seating.”

I think we ought to be careful before making statements which imply that something hundreds, maybe thousands, of shluchim do on a regular basis, often with guidance from a chassidishe rav, is completely asur and against the will of the rebbe.

Mechitzos are for sure one of those that the Rebbe raised the bar of… i think it was even one of the conditions for being Mesader Kidushin…

Satmar and Hungarian communities who came in the chofs had a much stronger impact on this subject over the frum world. Of course notwithstanding Lubavitch effort as described in the article.

Bh we have a lot to be proud of, things that Lubavitch actually pioneered, we don’t need to rewrite history in order to make ourselves feel good. Bh each community has what to offer.
ונהרא נהרא פשטי׳

The issue of mechitzahs was addressed on the Headlines podcast recently. They spoke with HaRav Oberlander from Hungary. The attitude of the host leaves a bit to be desired but HaRav Oberlander handles the topic as one would expect from such a distinguished talmid chocham.

Rabbi chaikin from cleveland once said this story in a lot more detail, can anash.org contact him to get the full story?

——

“Rabbi Shlomo Cunin related:

When I was preparing for Chabad of California’s first dinner…”

if i remember correctly, veteran shluchim such as Rabbi Moshe Herson, Rabbi Berel Shemtov, and many more, held mixed dinners for balebatim before Gimmel Tammuz,

to fully cover the topic, it would be nice if whoever wrote the article can please find out what the Rebbe’s guidlines were for Balebatim’s dinners.

Many of us need to be reminded about this, about the basics.

Zay gebentcht!

Yirmi Cohen

Lubavitch standards are set by the Rebbe and no one should be able to change that.

Tznius and kedusha brings more bracha!