SB Shaw
livegeulanow@gmail.com

So just allow everyone to stay in school is your solution??

Kicking them out of school is against everything the Rebbe stands for and the praise the Rebbe gives of Lubavitcher Yeshiva in a sicha that we take everyone.

All the points in the article are valid and needed, except for the attack on the other person, a baal yesurim who has a legitimate point. Yes, he put his opinion out there and for different reasons (he might himself agree with this approach) but the response gained nothing and got sidetracked by rebuking him. Again, he may even agree with your thought out, needed and researched points.

After 2 kids get kicked out, the parent body will know, you mean business, and things will fall into place. like every rule that needs to be implemented. remember we need to worry about the mainstream girls that we are loosing. and remember there are other schools for girls in crown heights. Bais Rivka is not the only school in Crown Heights.

No name or article was referenced. Your comment makes a reference.
The article addressed an approach. This approach is secular, and perhaps coming from those who themselves have issues. i see no lashon horo in that.

In the article it says that “wearing short sleeves is like eating pork”. You disagree. Care to tell us why? Where do get those “sensitivities” that one mitzvah is more than another?
I disagree too. Short sleeves are much worse than pork. If a woman eats treif, her husband cannot divorce her for that. But if she wears short sleeves he may. It’s way worse.
I think that this “sensitivity” to downgrade the importance of tznius as though it’s only a “minor infraction” is at the core of the issue. Torah considers it very serious.
Now, of course just talking about how serious it is, won’t do the job, we need to inspire motivate etc, but we ought have our yesodos right.

In many aspects of what you write, you are right.
My understanding of this “fist on the table” pounding article, is your argument and desire that the topic of Tznius be spoken of in the homes of Yidden all over the world. Be it by supper or even only on Shabbos, through beautiful encouraging stories of women who come what may, wouldn’t budge even a hairs breathe from their Tznius standards. Or how men throughout the ages were very careful about their Tznius (in thought, speech and action). [as is well known the words of the Shulchan Aruch -sourced in the Gemoro- a man mustn’t walk behind a woman etc]. Ultimately it’s up to the “readers discretion” about how they take this to heart, and they chose to deal with it in their own 4 Amos. Whether is with their personal Rov, or the communal Rov. through their Mashpia, or the communal Mashpia.

I write this as my understanding of your article, fore your article seemingly doesn’t follow the Gemoros golden rule of approach (brought down many times by the Rebbe) ימין מקרבת ושמאל דוחה, something -that any topic of Torah that needs to be addressed- needs to be taken into account.

Chassidus teaches us the idea of Sovev-Makif סובב-מקיף, and Memalei ממלא, and how the infinite light of HaShem comes into the world in two ways, reason being cause the Vessels כלים ie the recipient of the infinite light, isn’t capable of receiving it as is.

Albeit that the point is very clear, Ill chose to spend more time on such a sensitive idea (צרכי הציבור) to help the reader better understand the point BS”D.

For you to better understand, I’m not a person who shys away from any Torah topic that may come up (if it’s not something I’m familiar with, I WILL look it up and get more understanding in Torah) doesn’t matter if it’s looking at a clock on the towns Tumah, or Tznius by a man, as much (or even more) than by a woman [not smelling perfume] so long as it’s for the betterment of the person and people present on the conversation.

With that said, many people today have trigger words, one of them is the word Tznius. When asked what the word means, or the root of the word, or who decided this should be done this way, there’s no answer. People are negating, and “disturbed” by something they no little to nothing about. So issue #1 (which in itself stands as a solution) education of pure ethentic Torah as ״חכמתו של הקב״ה״ [not a rule book, as you so nicely pointed out] and a greater emphasis on the beauty of Torah ״דרכי׳ דרכי נועם וכו׳״, I’m a way of ימין מקרבת וכו׳ and of course בדרכי נועם. Beginning with the Pesukim in תנ״ך that we learn out Tznius from, followed by the Gemoro and Poskim with a thorough explanation of what’s Halacha, and what’s minhag (which is also “why minhag” as we know the famous story of the Ramah that brought the Ramah to write on the Beis Yosef’s Shulchan Aruch [as a defense of minhag]), and through each individual persons guidance of their Rov they’ll be able to gradually grow into the Minhag, which we all know Minhag Yisroel IS Torah.

Issue #2 (just by knowing there’s a problem, we’ve already found most of the solution), sadly gone are the days that we would hear Geshmake farbrengenishn by chassidim like Reb Pinye A”H, a true Chossid who lived what he spoke, and spoke about what he looked to achieve. (Someone who even the young Bachurim could understand was serious about his Avodas HaShem, and more importantly had Taanug -a real Geshmak- in serving HaShem. The emphasis is no longer about being infused with awe, fear, and love of HaShem all at once [im sorry to do this, but all the recent articles posted, have all been about proving a point, and showing the issues, and the war of Tzivos HaShem against the YH]. We need to speak about Simcha in Avodas HaShem. It’s not just about “being happy with life” Lehavdil (live, laugh, love). it’s about Simcha shel Mitzva, going into R”H and Y”K knowing that HaShem is our father and he loves us so dearly that no matter what, HaShem will make sure that we have the best year ever, with the coming of MOSHIACH. (Yes R”H needs to be serious, but there’s a difference between serious that ways a person down, or serious that picks a person up.)

We all know this very clearly from the Rebbe, when everyone went by for lekach, or by Birchas Habonim (which there are quite a few videos of, for ALL to see) the Rebbe showed a very serious face, and even before Neila finished the Rebbe would dance on the chair, encouraging the chassidim in the singing and dancing מתוך שמחה.

Taanug in Avodas HaShem means in simple words that every member of the household feels a certain joy and excitement to make kiddush the second their father comes home from shul. The opposite there of, is where the father is met by lagging feet, and slouched family members still sitting on the couch “finishing their conversation”. Or men waking up early but only making it to start their day hours later, and coming to daven in a slouched form, lacking enthusiasm to daven, or put on Tefillin (the most beautiful mitzva accompanied by Tzitzis [which is accompanied by all mitzvos, as is known that Tzitzis represents all mitzvos]. When the wife sees the husband enthusiastic about shabbos (he doesn’t run to the shower the last minute) who he prepares himself all day for the Holy day of Shabbos, and she sees his enthusiasm in going to learn with his chavrusa, or going to daven. She will be enthusiastic about everything she needs to be doing (even in caring for the young beautiful children that HaShem so kindly blessed them with), the children will live a different life, they’ll have a happy life, they will only desire to grow up to put on Tefillin, to shake the lulav and esrog, to eat the matza and marror, to fulfill the mitzva of marriage and thereof. I personally heard from a woman who has BH been blessed with many long years, how when she was a girl, she could hardly wait to be Bas Mitzva so that she can wear tights just like her mother and her sisters, that was her desire as a child of 6-7 years old. She didn’t want lights, she didn’t want a color scheme, with colored popcorn that caters to each person’s palette, she wanted to grow in Torah and mitzvos Behidur, like the example she saw by her mother and was very proudly followed by her sisters.

The pride of being a Ben melech, of being a Bas melech starts from young, and we hope and pray that with HASHEMS help, we entrust our princes and princesses to caring, loving educators, who will put them on this path, and continue them on this path, and not cv disrespect “the king in his palace” by disrespecting the prince or princess. And teach them to love and respect their king melech malchei hamlachim, and to always be ready to serve him with love and honor.

To sum it up, better to push for Taanug in Avodas HASHEM (as taught in Chassidus many times), and in a subtle way (rather automatically) the Ben melech, and the Bas melech will wear their clothes, the clothes befitting of a prince and princess (just as expected to be clean etc) with honor, dignity and more importantly with Yiddishe pride and geshmak. (Not as a burden)
[we wear a beard and payos, cause that what our father the king does, י״ג תיקוני דיקנא etc. the prince doesn’t play with the commoners, albeit great people the commoners are, but yet he’s different, just because he’s the son of the king [if he’s better or not kind of matters, but that’s a different discussion entirely. But even as better, a prince doesn’t put down his subjects, he just respectfully holds himself higher. וראו כל עמי הארץ כי שם ה׳ נקרא עליך וכו׳.

May this article and all articles be enough, as we know in Torah just speaking of it sometimes is enough, and if this is all HaShem needs to reveal himself so be it, with the coming of MOSHIACH NOW!!!

There is a woman named Faigy Zelcer who does incredible work with tznius education in the Bais Yaakov world. One service she has offered is that she comes to a school and assesses the environment to see how tznius is being transmitted, not only in the classroom, and what improvements can be made (if schools are open to it). It’s not just what is being taught in the classroom, but what can be done to make the environment we are raising our girls in more compatible with tznius. Her organization also offers a two-year curriculum for both high school and middle school and teacher training. https://www.penimi.org/tznius-programs. addressing nuances and the essence of tznius with multiple conversations (not giving up if it doesnt go over well the first few times). Having ongoing support for teachers who teach tznius is important. Who said it has to be easy?

And yes, we must talk about it. If we don’t talk about it, there is no hope for it to be fixed. The issue will not go away by itself, and as we can see with time, it is only getting worse and worse.

I could not be more proud to be a Chabad chosid. I believe it is specifically due to our unique responsibility in the world, and our extremely high madreiga, that we are being challenged with this catastrophic situation.“Kol hagadol mechaveiro, yetzro gadol heimenu” — Whoever is greater than his fellow, his evil inclination is greater. (Succah 52a) The very intensity of this struggle testifies to our spiritual capacity.

Lubavitch is in a completely different place than it ever was, specifically with the Frum world — from Satmar to Lakewood. Especially in the last ten years, thanks to the Shluchim — who are such a Kidush Hashem, hosting with graciousness and pure Ahavas Yisroel for so many Frum Yidin who now travel the world more than ever, as well as as to Reb Sholom M. Rubashkin, among other factors.

But the one tayna many of them have — Yidin who genuinely want to get closer to Chabad chassidus — how could it be that the very people who are absorbed and entrenched with Chassidus dress so Un-Tzniyusdik? When I hear this, it’s like someone is stabbing me with a dagger in the heart.

It would be much easier to think that the smartphone addiction in our girls’ schools has nothing to do with our Tzniyus problem, but there is no doubt in my mind that the two are directly related.

Hashem doesn’t give us more than we can handle. I have no doubt that we can overcome this challenge by following the directives of the Rebbe, and I pray that we all throw ourselves 100% into this issue so we can continue to lead the way for the rest of Klal Yisroel as true dugma chayas of Chassidim.

That’s the solution?? Kick them out of school?

To do what? Go where?

Maybe it’s time to reevaluate how it is being taught? Do we have pride in who we are? Do we really know what is expected of us? We are the Bas Melech and we won’t settle for less.

People write about the topic of tznius,
As if they are a mashgiach.. and the issue at hand is misbehavior

So , i have news…

Those who are convinced that this is about women not wanting to live up to standards, are tottally misunderstanding.

Yes, there are many cases like that,
But so many cases show quite the opposite, for example, a mother who is mekushar to the rebbe, and nevertheless
Tight clothing can overseen..

Or so many other cases where you see that its not about living up to standards, but rather a tottally different issue.

And so,
I feel that many people are approaching yiddishkeit from the wrong angle.

When kids are taught in school that grades are whats most important, when inyonim of bein odom lachaveiro are not stressed, the picture the kids get is corrupted.

So if you want to deal with tznius, or any other issue for that matter, we need to go to the root.

If a boy or girl grows up, seeing halacha as a bunch of rules, you cannot excpect that people will be inspired to abide by it.

The only real solution is to create a vaad (council) of influential people who are not afraid of backlash or bullying, and who will set clear standards for our mainstream schools. These standards must be implemented across the board, with accountability. If a girl refuses to comply, she should not be allowed to remain in the school.

Only with such a strong and united approach can we stop this tidal wave of the tznius problem in our community.